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 Post subject: Creating GPS Tour Guides
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:08 am 
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I have a few questions and hopefully I am posting in this the correct forum. First of all, I work for a university, specifically the grounds department. I'm involved in developing maps for the department, mainly AutoCAD. We have recently set up three trails on campus of historic trees, rare plants, etc...things like that.

So what I am wondering is if GPS can help out with the trail, a custom tour guide basically. I'm just going to throw out a bunch of questions that I have. Here it goes: is it possible, what would be needed for a campus tour, can you load the tour online to be downloaded for others to use, can points of interest (a tree in my case) have information/pic about it, can proximity be adjust (some plants are pretty close to each other), etc?

That is all that comes to mind right now. I am pretty sure a majority of this can be done as I have seen it, but on a grander scale (city wide, not a campus). Thank you in advance

Vince


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:23 am 
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I'm at about the same point on the learning curve as you are, so may not be able to offer much. I work for a state geological survey and am hoping to create self-guided geologic road logs. Hopefully we can both learn more about this.

TravelByGPS has a number of free tours which can be downloaded for Garmin units, so you can definately put them online for others to access. Their tours also include photos and sound bites, which would answer another of your questions. The photos and sound may be helpful in sorting out things which are closely spaced, since the gps may not narrow things down far enough for that.

They also have information on creating your own guides which I'm hoping will be helpful.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:00 pm 
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this is a question heard more and more from tour bus operators, meals on wheels, school buses, etc. I would presume that companies like Fed Ex and UPS also have such a need .. and may already have a solution... but it's not a consumer grade generic solutions... so what we're talking about here might be a poor-mans version.

I live in an area with multiple historic sites.. some of them miles apart and some of the individual battlefields... themselves fairly complex... Being able to download/rent a "tour" would be a boon to out of state folks who are flummoxed by local roads and traffic.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:23 pm 
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I'm assuming you want to do this with a handheld GPS, not a laptop. All my comments are based on this assumption.

Their are two basic barriers to implementing what you want:
1] The low power, 2-AA, CPU's inside todays handhelds do not have enough processing power to handle the bitmaps required for photos.
2] Most handhelds are vector based only, they don't even know how to interpret a bitmap. Audio is also a problem, although audio is now common in automotive GPS so we're close.

Two exceptions: Both the new Magellan Triton and DeLorme PN20 will handle bitmaps, hence photos. If we judge by the performance of the PN20, be prepared for agonizingly slow draw times, on the order of minutes to refresh a screen.

So until we have millwatt x86 CPUs, I think your dream is just that, a dream. Having said all that, I'd be surprised if Garmin didn't introduce a bitmap enabled handheld platform at CES 2008, we'll know next month.

FWIW
Hermit


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:00 pm 
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While it isn't exactly a handheld, most of the nuvi series does all this rather nicely. I've been successful in trying a small walking tour on the University of Wyoming campus.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:01 pm 
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Allory wrote:
While it isn't exactly a handheld, most of the nuvi series does all this rather nicely.

Including Photos?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:07 pm 
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Yes. When you get within the proximity circle of the POI a mp3 begins playing. At that point an icon appears on the screen which links to jpgs which are linked to the mp3.
The trial run which I put together has different sculptures around campus as the POIs. When you approach within 25 meters a sound bite about the artist plays and a photo is linked to that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:21 pm 
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Allory wrote:
Yes. When you get within the proximity circle of the POI a mp3 begins playing. At that point an icon appears on the screen which links to jpgs which are linked to the mp3.
The trial run which I put together has different sculptures around campus as the POIs. When you approach within 25 meters a sound bite about the artist plays and a photo is linked to that.
I'm Impressed!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:37 pm 
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I'm pretty pleased myself. Now I need to find a way to get the audio to sound better. On the first run I used a synthesized voice from a text to speech utility. Its pretty pitiful, but proof of concept was all I was trying for at that point.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:34 pm 
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Allory wrote:
I'm pretty pleased myself. Now I need to find a way to get the audio to sound better. On the first run I used a synthesized voice from a text to speech utility. Its pretty pitiful, but proof of concept was all I was trying for at that point.


I'm impressed also! congrats!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Allory wrote:
Now I need to find a way to get the audio to sound better.
Would seem pretty straight forward. Since you know your subject, simply write a script and speak into a mic and convert to MP3.

BTW, You may have patentable ideas with what you've done. I'd look into it. My mind just races with all the possibilites. Something about a hot shower after splitting wood with a maul. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:12 pm 
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Garmin introduced their Tour Guide feature on the Nuvi's over a year ago. Most new GPS display JPGs, play audio in MP3 format, and handle proximity alerts, and the new(ish) zumo even captures screen shots as JPGs. The only issue with Vince's application is the scale - the locations may be very close toghether - perhaps closer than the GPS basic accuracy.

Here's what Garmin says about it's Tour Guide Feature:
Quote:
What is Garmin TourGuide™?

With the latest POI Loader software, third-party developers can create and load special Garmin TourGuide POIs, which turn your compatible Garmin unit into your own personal, electronic tour guide. These POIs have an MP3 audio file associated with them. When you pass by a TourGuide POI with your compatible Garmin unit (must have MP3 playback capability), the TourGuide audio file begins playing automatically. Garmin TourGuide has so many different applications: you can use it for bus tours, hotels, rentals, real estate sales — the possibilities are endless!

Garmin TourGuide POIs are currently compatible with nüvis® with MP3 playback capability, zūmo™, and the StreetPilot® c550, 2730, 2820, 7200 and 7500.

Creating TourGuide Files

TourGuide is a feature available on compatible Garmin devices. TourGuide files include Custom POIs with descriptive .mp3 audio files. When you approach a TourGuide point, the .mp3 file plays and provides you with information about that point, much like a guided tour. TourGuide files must be saved as .gpx files.

NOTE: TourGuide files are usually created by third party developers.

To create TourGuide points, follow the steps for creating Creating Custom POIs in MapSource and use the File/URL field to attach the appropriate .mp3 files to the points. The .mp3s must contain the word “TourGuide” in the file name to activate the TourGuide feature. For example, “TourGuide.mp3”, “TourGuide USA.mp3”, or “TourGuide 12.mp3” are all valid TourGuide file names.

After you have created all your TourGuide points, save them as a .gpx file. See Creating Custom POIs in MapSource for more information.

After you have saved your TourGuide points in a .gpx file, you can save them on an SD card or load them on your compatible GPS unit using Express Mode or Manual Mode.

Adding Pictures to TourGuide Points

You can add .jpg images to your TourGuide points by following the steps for creating Creating Custom POIs in MapSource. Save the .jpg images and TourGuide .mp3 files in a directory, then use the File/URL field to link to that directory.

You can also include the path to the .jpg image in the ID3 data of your TourGuide .mp3 file. Search the internet for more information on ID3 tags for .mp3 files.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:27 am 
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So far all I've done is follow Garmin's protocol and other people's lead. I wanted to be closer to the lead, but didn't have a GPS which would support the technology until about two weeks ago.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:30 am 
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I note that others have inquired about being able to create/maintain ROUTES, such as a series of stops for Meals on Wheels.

Obviously, not much need for jpgs or mp3s for those stops... but the ability to put together a series of stops for a Meals on Wheels "TOUR"... might be.

So.. if one subtracts out the MP3 and jpg aspects of a "Tour Guide", what else would make that guide ... different from a Route with a bunch of via stops?

Isn't the grouping of related POIs into a navigable "guide" essentially a "Route"?

or not... please explain... thanks.. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:10 am 
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The difference is that a TourGuide won't direct you to the locations. The MP3s and/or text will become available when you get within the proximity set, but the locations are essentially separate from each other.

You don't "press play" and have them "play" in sequence. Again, it doesn't "route" you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:44 am 
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Motorcycle Mama wrote:
The difference is that a TourGuide won't direct you to the locations. The MP3s and/or text will become available when you get within the proximity set, but the locations are essentially separate from each other.

You don't "press play" and have them "play" in sequence. Again, it doesn't "route" you.


ahhh.... so you cannot "assemble" a route of vias that are custom POIs?

geeze .. this seems like such an obvious thing....

go from home to the restaurant to the movie to ice cream to home...

go from home to doctor, food store, pick up cleaning and head home...

no?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:41 pm 
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Sure you can assemble a route of custom POIs. But you can't load it to a unit unless that unit supports stored routes.

The TourGuide isn't a route. It is a collection of waypoints. The points, however, can be used in a route.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:57 am 
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Very good information. I've been busy doing some other mapping with CAD so haven't been around to check the forum.

I'm thinking I might have a problem with proximity, trees being too close to each other for GPS units to recognize which is which. Then again, I'm new to all this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:45 am 
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This thread reached me via a "google alerts" email.

This is certainly technologically possible, as we've done it:

www.cityshownyc.com

We even created a special version for the top of "30 Rock" - the observation deck at Rockefeller Center:

http://www.cityshownyc.com/orphan01.html

It's possible to play audio, photos, and video - and a few other interesting things. We also have a digital map that tracks the user as they wander around.

Just those of you involved in this thread might be interested in hearing about it.

-BT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:50 pm 
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Thanks for posting!

yes.. this is PART of what I am talking about - the end product.

the other half - is software that allows the creation (and maintenance) of an Ad-Hoc "tour" by allowing lat/long/waypoint/poi specification of each of the places you want to visit and then have the unit navigate that series of "stops".

THEN once you are actually navigating your desired route, the unit would ALSO tell you of the other POIs nearby.

For instance, you're in the middle of your tour - and you need a bathroom or lunch.. etc...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:27 pm 
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That sort of sounds like the old "Traveling salesman" problem. I.e., "What's the best route given a set of points?".

Nope, that doesn't exist in PDA/GPS Tour Guide Software

I'm not going to explain the multiple problems with it.

I'm expecting a patent on our existing software methodology (currently patent pending). A general (but unworkable) version of a gps tour guide was patented about 10 years ago. Our advancements work (obviously) quite well in NYC.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:44 am 
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bteasley wrote:
That sort of sounds like the old "Traveling salesman" problem. I.e., "What's the best route given a set of points?".

Nope, that doesn't exist in PDA/GPS Tour Guide Software

I'm not going to explain the multiple problems with it.

I'm expecting a patent on our existing software methodology (currently patent pending). A general (but unworkable) version of a gps tour guide was patented about 10 years ago. Our advancements work (obviously) quite well in NYC.


Actually no. Just the ability for a user to build their own custom tour - as opposed to a canned tour done for them.

Even the canned tours however, need a way to add/delete/modify tour stops.

So that kind of software.. in a form and with a user interface so that ordinary folks can use it to do their own tour.

I would envision it to be like a kiosk where the tourist could be presented with a list of places available to visit and then pick/choose the ones they want to visit - then have that tour downloaded/uploaded to a rent-able unit.

oh.. yes.. now I see the traveling salesman issue but at least two Garmin units are capable of that - a Nuvi and the Zumo I believe.

Anyhow.. this capability could have a very large set of potential uses, certainly to include most every major tourist area with multiple potential places to visit.

fertile ground for entrepreneurs... I would think.


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